Kim Krause Schwalm: Copywriting Mastery, Authentic Marketing & Freelance Freedom | Ep67

Christian
What’s up, beautiful people? This is Christian from the Successful Spiritualpreneur Podcast. And today… I’m very excited to have Kim Krause Schwalm on the podcast. She is a distinguished direct response copywriter and marketing strategist who, over two decades of experience, has began her career in the corporate world, holding various marketing positions, including brand manager and publisher, before launching and growing the Healthy Directions Supplement brand, over $23 million in sales within three years. After that, Kim transitioned into freelance copywriting, quickly establishing herself as one of America’s top A-list copywriters. As the founder of Get Dangerously Good and author of Client Badass Re-Secrets, Kim mentors aspiring copywriters, helping them enhance their skills and build a successful freelance career. Welcome to the show, Kim. Oh, thank you.

Kim Krause Schwalm
It’s been great to be here. I know we’ve had to push this back a few times, so finally we get to do this. Yeah, wonderful.

Christian
Well, as a, you know, as an intro, So I would love to hear a little bit more about what that pivotal moment was that made you go from kind of having your own multi-million dollar brand into becoming copywriting and, you know, finding that as your true calling.

So it was, I was actually working as an employee with a company. So I was an in-house employee who happened to help launch their subsidiary and run it. And I did such a good job. I was a young 31-year-old woman that I got to hire somebody to be president of the company. So, I mean, basically it was like, oh, we can’t have a young woman with no supplement background running this very promising business, right? So that was a little bit of a bitter pill. I know we don’t want to start off with something negative, but it did eventually prompt me to become my own boss. And to become a freelance copywriter. I had a very successful career at the publishing company, and part of that was launching and running that business, which was really one of the best things I did in my career, just in terms of very fulfilling and fun and learning so many things. From there, I went on to some other roles with the company, but then I realized that I did have this gift, this natural ability to write advertising copy, and I enjoyed it. Even though I had never been an actual copywriter, was something that was part of what I did in my different marketing roles. So I took the leap to become a freelance copywriter. After I had my first child, I’d gone back to work, and I was like, you know what, I need to just go for this, right? This would be the time. And it was tough, because I left a very well-paying job, but almost right away, I was able to increase my earnings and eventually get to the point that I was working maybe half as much as I was on my corporate marketing job. And it had a lot more flexibility, had a lot more income, and I was able to… Be there for my two kids, you know, when we were raising them. And, you know, so there’s kind of another part of that that you really didn’t get into with the intro. And I’m sure we’ll talk more about it, you know, in a little bit. But I’ve definitely transitioned a few other times beyond that to doing some other things, but I still have my hand in writing copy with select clients.

Christian
Beautiful. And just to maybe highlight that, what usually doesn’t get highlighted, which I think is, you know, the family, right? Because you were, you had your freelance career. Like, where are your kids now? like, just a brief, like, yeah, because of, you know, because all this time and attention and just like, care that you could dedicate to your kids, you know, is because of, you know, that career shift, you know, so yeah, this little breakdown. Yeah, this, my kid became this. It’s not theirs, you know.

Well, so part of that is about eight years ago was when I started having an email list and started to develop a following of people who wanted to learn about freelance copywriting from me. So that’s kind of maybe chapter three, right, of my career. Chapter one, the corporate world. Chapter two, pure freelancing and, you know, having that dream work-life balance while my kids were growing up. And then, of course, they got older, which they do, right, eventually. And then I had a little more time. So I started as sort of a side thing, having my email list. And what I really wanted to do is, you know, being a freelance copywriter had been really, really good for me in many ways. I mean, I’m not just talking just, you know, financially, obviously allowed, you know, a certain amount of comfort and travel and freedom. But it was mainly that quality of life, right, that I wanted to be able to help other people have, no matter what their goals were. I mean, sometimes it’s because somebody, I mean, doesn’t necessarily want to have spirit. Time for kids, but maybe they have other hobbies or writing, you know, personal writing projects or things they want to do, right? But we all still got to, you know, keep the lights on and pay the mortgage. But yeah, showing people how to have a more satisfying and more successful copywriting career became part of my mission. And I did that with the free e-letter that I’ve been sending out for eight years and as well as my emails where I definitely, I entertain, but I do a lot of teaching. And then, of course, my courses. I have several courses that I’ve created over the years that are very in-depth. And then, of course, I’ve done mentoring programs and coaching. So these are, and I have many, you know, people that I’ve helped along the way over the last eight years that, you know, I’m thinking of one guy who his wife was able to quit her job and they have like four kids now and he’s able to work from home. And do you know what I mean? Like, that’s like really fulfilling.

Christian
Like, because. Because it’s like, that’s what I got to do.

My husband only worked like five minutes away. So we were like, pinch ourselves, we really actually get to do the things with our kids as they grow up, you know, and not have those regrets later. That is amazing.

Christian
I’m so happy that you were able to set that example for, you know, your family and the world in a way. And so in that regard, how would you define yourself or how would you define what a spiritualpreneur is?

I think you come from a couple different places. I think you, you come from a giving perspective, and you give more than you get. I mean, like, for example, with my email list, I give away a very in depth copywriting checklist is actually five different checklist and people are like, why are you giving this away, you should be charging for it, right. But that’s just what I do, right. And in my courses, I pack so much in I, I, I like to Over deliver, you know, with what I do. So I feel like you have to, you have to feel passionate about what your mission is. And I told you, like, if I can help, you know, copywriters be more successful and achieve that kind of work life balance that I was able to do, you know, for so many years, you know, that’s what drives me. So, you know, part of that is it’s very hard and competitive, especially more than ever, to have a successful freelance career. Now we’ve got AI. That’s another whole topic, right? That’s making things really challenging. And hard for people who, you know, like are either already working as copywriters or who are trying to break in. So and even when I wrote my client Badassery Secrets book a few years ago, you know, I found just from coaching and mentoring so many different copywriters, that, you know, people were just dealing with, you know, everyday problems that come up. I mean, things I’ve seen it all like 27 years of freelancing, believe me, like, especially when you go back to those early days, I had the, I had my, my share. Crappy clients, and they still pop up now and then, right? So I wanted to share my kind of my war stories and my experience and my lessons in that book, many of which were things I already had shared at one point or another with my email list just for free. But just, you know, so I can help people, you know, deal with this and get that shot of confidence in their arm.

Christian
You know, hey, you know, you don’t need to put up with that. And what we say is, you know, the most important lesson you wish you could kind of share to fast track other people who are starting out or who are in the beginning of their career.

I mean, see yourself as a professional. I mean, if you really want to do this, you need to if you want to be treated like a professional, you want to act like a professional. And so there’s a couple of things. One is you dedicate yourself to doing your very, very best work and you do whatever you need to do to do that. Right. You’re getting feedback, maybe on your copy, you’re constantly learning, you’re studying other. They’re promos that are successful. You’re, you know, you’re constantly working on getting better at what you do. You’re not just going out and trying to just get work, right? You’ve got to deliver. You’ve got to be able to deliver. But the other part of it is, okay, you’re a professional. You deserve to be treated like a professional. So you want to be able to put up those boundaries that many of us have trouble doing, you for whatever reason, you know, things that happened in our childhood or, you know, lack of confidence or whatever, because clients can smell it. Like they can smell desperation. They can smell if they can take advantage of you, if they can walk over you. Do you know what I mean? And this is part of what I teach in that book. And so I think that that’s a big part of it is dealing with what’s in your headspace and how do you, you know, because you, if you, it always floors me, like people maybe will not charge a 50% advance on a project. Could you, could you imagine somebody coming into your house and remodeling your kitchen? You’re like, oh, I’ll just pay. When everything’s done. No, right? No way. So just certain things like that. We need to see ourselves as professionals, but it’s a two-way street. It means that we have to be really good at what we do and deliver really great work, but we also need to expect to be treated as professionals. Yeah, love that.

Christian
And a lot of the listeners who are conscious entrepreneurs, spiritualpreneurs, they struggle with the idea of selling because it feels pushy or inauthentic in a way to them. So how would you approach that in copywriting or in formulating certain messaging and positioning that feels aligned with their values while still being highly effective?

Well, I remember when I worked at the publishing company many years ago, learning from the president of the company, that when somebody, after somebody reads your copy, you want them to feel better off for having read it. So part of that is taking… a more educational approach. And again, it kind of goes back to giving more than you get, right? You know, I’m going to maybe give some things away. I’m going to, you’re going to be better off having read this thing about arthritis pain or about, you know, you know, how to land clients or how to, you know, whatever it is that you’re selling, right? So it’s not so much like in somebody’s face direct, like what we think is awful, like we don’t want to be right as far as pushy salespeople. It’s more of, you know, demonstration. It’s, you know, like, oh, here’s just a sampling of what I can teach you, for example, right? Or educating somebody about a problem, let’s say it, because I do write a lot of health copy and have over the years, you know, here’s why some of these other things haven’t worked, right? And then really educating them about your solution. And so that it’s becomes, it’s interesting. you know, whether, even if they don’t buy, like they’re better off for having read your copy. But quite honestly, that approach to copy is going to be much more successful.

Christian
And how would you give advice for someone today that they’re thinking, you know, I’d love to start a career as a freelancer that, you know, maybe it could be could be copywriting, could be, you know, something something different or could involve copywriting. A lot of times, you know, for example, even building websites involves copywriting, right? So do you have any advice for that type of person, how to start or like, what should you do? Like, do you recommend AI? Like, what, where should they start?

Okay, so I think you first off, you have to really understand all the fundamentals really well, you have to master that, like, you have to understand what makes good copy, what goes into a good headline, you know, there’s no shortcut to that. Now, can you use AI to then, you know, give yourself, create at least a draft? After something you can work with, sure, you can do that. I mean, I use AI as a tool all the time. You can use it for summarizing, you know, complex information. You know, I, for example, was just writing a supplement promo this week. And there’s, I’m digging through all these studies. And, you know, I have the AI just put this at an eighth grade reading level, right? And then I can, now I can explain it better in my copy. So I think, but you first have to have the fundamentals down. You also have to understand the bigger picture of how your copies use. So let’s say you specialize in Facebook ads, like you really have to understand, you know, the ins and outs of Facebook advertising and just how, you know, where is that in the marketing and selling process, like for, you know, different companies, like how do they use it? I mean, I tend to work more with direct response. So I’m looking at like long form sales pages and, and, you know, really understanding that. And that comes from my, my, my primary, you know, initial. My was really very much with direct mail, because when I started off 27 years ago, I mean, I was doing some internet projects, believe it or not, 27 years ago, but we didn’t have the long form sales pages and the VSLs and obviously and all that till maybe 15 years ago. So a lot of what I learned is based on direct marketing, direct mail. But yeah, I think that you want to, the other advice I would have, is you need to be more than a copywriter, you need to see yourself as more of a copywriter, and you position yourself as more of a copywriter, because, you know, what people really want, what clients really want is somebody to come in and help them with the strategy. And sometimes they want somebody who can just implement, right? So that’s why a lot of people find success starting off with email copy. It’s shorter, it’s easier to master. But maybe you’re not, you get to the point where you’re really not writing every word of copy, you figured out how to use AI to produce some pretty decent emails, but your clients. And I think that’s part of what’s helped me be successful, too, just in looking back, because I was coming from a marketing background. And I’ve always brought that to the table with every client that I’m working with.

Christian
Yeah. And what do you see as, you know, what’s one of the biggest opportunities right now in the space, whether that’s marketing or copywriting, like, where do you see the opportunities?

Hmm. I mean, it kind of depends on where you are. I think a lot of people have something kind of unique that they really know well, and I think they should leverage. Like, for example, I am actually putting my toe back in the water, again, a bit more with direct mail. Well, guess what? There’s not that many people out there who really know direct mail, but more and more companies are starting to use it again or realizing, hey, this is a channel that’s kind of going ignored. So because I’m one of those veteran copywriters who, you know, kind of learned the whole thing based on direct mail, like I was saying, I have a huge edge over somebody who’s just trying to figure out what is this direct mail stuff, right? But for someone who’s just starting out, I mean, you know, there are some people who really understand how to get leads on Instagram. I just, I’ve actually recently spoke with, I interviewed several people that are on my email list who are doing really well right now in the face of AI. And I may be putting these interviews together in some kind of program that people can learn just in terms of how to make themselves AI proof. go. these together. Because unlike what a lot of people think, a lot of copywriters are actually able to charge more money. They’re, you know, they’re not having any issues in that department, you know, and they’re using AI. But so there’s different ways you can differentiate yourself. Like one person is using, has gotten really good at Instagram for lead generation, right? Other people are specializing in voice, you know, so it’s kind of like a howdy, because again, like AI, and I, you know, there’s tools that you can create bots, but some people are creating bots, you know, but, you know, using voice and bots, or even people who go beyond that, it’s like, I’m going to help create your whole brand identity. And now we’re going to put that into all your emails. And again, they’re going to help them with all their emails, because a lot of businesses don’t want to have to deal with that day to day. So I think it depends on finding some kind of way to differentiate yourself with some kind of unique knowledge or expertise that you have.

Christian
Yeah. And, you know, when someone starts or is in that space as a small entrepreneur or a spiritual entrepreneur or a conscious entrepreneur, like what would you say is like one marketing principle or one copywriting principle that works well for small spiritual or small conscious entrepreneurs?

Don’t get lost in the sea of sameness. You know, don’t be like everybody else. Be you. Figure out what makes you you and be that unique personality. And that’s what people are going to ultimately bond with. You know, if you don’t mind being the face of your brand. And most people don’t. And if you’re not the face of the brand, maybe it’s a product based, you know, company, you know, what is it that’s really unique or superior that your product does? And just really focus on that, you know, because you again, we don’t want to be in the sea of sameness and we don’t want to be a. So that’s what I would focus on.

Christian
And then for, you know, for someone who is currently, you know, working a full-time job and, you know, thinking about, you know, branching out and starting their own freelance career, would you say, like, what would you say to them? I mean, obviously, maybe not just become a copywriter, but like, you know, how can they position themselves?

Well, I mean, again, look at where you’re coming from with your background, because a lot of people, if you’re coming from one professional career and transitioning into copywriting, probably have some area of expertise. Like for me, I had helped launch and run a supplement business for three years. So I really knew supplement copy and supplements in general and health and wellness. And so, you know, almost right away, it was very easy to line up work. In fact, what I did and what I would definitely advise somebody to do. If they’re able, is get some kind of retainer arrangement, so that that can act as a bridge from leaving, you know, your your regular paycheck, right, and going into to being a freelancer. So back in 1998, when I first got into freelance copywriting, I was making $100,000 a year at my job, you know, in $98, that was pretty good money. And, you know, I had gone back to work after having my first child, I had a full time nanny, etc, etc. And luckily, I had a husband also who was employed, but you know, we definitely needed my income too. And I was able to get a, a part time marketing and copywriting role with a local supplement business. And it was only going to take half my time, but I was able to replace 90% of my income with that one gig. And so almost right away, I had room in my schedule to take on other clients. And I had people that were referred to me. And that’s why the first year

Christian
I actually made 50% more than my previous job.

And that retainer lasted six months, but it was just long enough for me to start to get other clients on board. And luckily, I worked my referral system, which is something else that I talk a lot about in my client Badassery Secrets book. You know, especially if you’re coming from a previous career, you probably have a lot of different connections that you can say to people, hey, I’m a copywriter now. Here’s what I do. Do you know anybody who could use my services? Right. And I mean, I got so many referrals, you know. But yeah, so that acted as the bridge. And so I was able to keep my nanny. I was able to focus on being a copywriter, but also take breaks throughout the day and see my baby son. And it was just like, you know, the best of all worlds. So, yeah. So I would say try to find a retainer arrangement or line up some projects. You know, the retainer is great because, you know, especially something that’s at least six months that gives you some time. You don’t have to worry or panic. You don’t want to be in a position of taking on bad clients or undercharging and going through miserable, you know, experiences. And we’ve all had them. But, you know, if you can steer clear of that, part of that is never being overly desperate or seeming overly desperate.

Christian
Cool. I wanted to switch gears a little bit and just like ask you a little bit more about, you know, your current personal experience and like who and what inspires you in your, you know, current entrepreneurial and also spiritual journey.

Well, I’m very interested in the creation process. And, you know, contrary to what a lot of people think about copywriting, it’s really not that creative. I mean, for me, sometimes it’s about assembling copy. Research is fun. You know, it’s like trying to figure out a puzzle. Right. But it’s not super creative. I have a scream. One play I was working on until a few years ago, I want to get back to, I just published my first children’s book about six months ago. And, you know, and those are the things that are like lighting me up a lot right now. And one of the things with the children’s book, it’s based on a real life dog that belonged to a reggae star in Anguilla, which is a Caribbean island. And so he’s actually in the book. And I had an artist from Anguilla do all the illustrations. And I’m donating some of the proceeds to the Anguilla Animal Rescue Foundation. And also to the reggae star, his name is Banky Banks. He has a charity for promoting children’s music education. And so that’s been like a big kind of side project for me. I’ve made two trips just in the last eight months down to Anguilla to talk to retailers. It’s in almost all the stores and hotels on the island. And I’ll be going there again. But it’s, and I’ve just made so many great new relationships with the beautiful people of Anguilla, you know, and just getting to know the locals and getting to know Banky and, you know, and just feeling like I’m having a positive impact on that island. But I’ve traveled to several times over the years, you know, my husband and I went there for our honeymoon 30 years ago.

Christian
Beautiful. Yeah, sounds like you have a connection with that place.

Yeah, so that’s been a really fun project. And yeah, I have some family stories that my screenplay was based on one of my great grandfather who was on the battleship Maine when it exploded in Havana Harbor back in 1898. And there’s a whole huge story there. And then I just uncovered so many other fascinating things about my family history. So there’s just a lot of those kinds of creative projects that I want to have more time for, and I want to be able to get to.

Christian
Beautiful. I love that. And and You and And to And you you and As you’re, you know, writing and exploring your own story, what do you see as kind of the future or like what’s your vision for the new earth, whatever that means?

You know, I’m not going to get political, but we have a lot of crazy crap going on in this world right now, right? It’s very hard for many people, you know, to even think about, you know, just a lot of uncertainty. There’s war, there’s economic uncertainty, et cetera. And the other day, somewhere on social media, I saw Patti Smith, who’s now probably well into her 70s, doing this impromptu concert with people singing along, People Have the Power. I was like, yeah, people have the power. We need to remember that, you know, we can all have an impact. I mean, I’m having a small impact on this. We were just impacting people that I’ve mentored or coach and helping them have better lives. We all have the power and we can come together and we can make really positive change. So I think people need to realize that people have the power. And I think that the world needs that right now between global warming and all the big challenges that the world is facing right now, feeding people, taking care of people. We need to realize we have the power.

Christian
Yeah, I love that. I think that’s what it’s going towards at some point. I don’t know how long it’s going to take, but it’s going.

It needs to get there, right? mean, that’s where we need to go.

Christian
Each other more and more is just a big community. You know, you’re my brother, you’re my sister. How can I help you?

We are all. We’re connected. We are also connected. And more so, like when I dig into my whole genealogy, it’s amazing how diverse my genealogy is. I didn’t even get into that. But I think a lot of us have similar stories. And, you know, if we just realize, yeah, we all really are super connected. And yeah, we have the power. We can change the world. We can make it better. And we need to remember that. Beautiful.

Christian
Well, as we’re coming towards the end of the episode, but I always love to ask our guests that are on, what is something that they want to call into their lives in the coming months and years?

I would say more time for creation, but also more time for positive impact.

Christian
You know, like I said, the world, the world needs that now.

Yeah.

Christian
Okay, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for, you know, being on, sharing your heart and your wisdom. Where can people find you and how? How can they get in touch?

Probably the best place is to go to my website. It’s got all my stuff right there, my books, my courses, kimschwalm.com, K-I-M-S-C-H-W-A-L-M.com. Beautiful.

Christian
Thank you so much for being on the show, Kim.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Christian.

Kim Krause Schwalm: Copywriting Mastery, Authentic Marketing & Freelance Freedom | Ep67

Show Notes & Links

Connect with Christian

Introduction

Part 1: Who Is Kim Krause Schwalm?

Part 2: The Turning Point

Part 3: How to Start Your Freelance Copywriting Career

Part 4: The Mindset Shift Every Copywriter Needs

Part 5: Authentic Selling for Spiritual and Conscious Entrepreneurs

Part 6: How to Stand Out in a Crowded Market

Conclusion

Podcast Transcript

About

Christian Mauerer

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